Curse

Symeon · Sep 04, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Prophecies was entertaining.
Prophecies was epic.
Prophecies had variety.
Prophecies gave players more freedom.
Prophecies seemed complete.
Prophecies gave skills as quest rewards.
Prophecies was a brilliant game.
Factions was good.
Nightfall was mediocre.
EotN is also mediocre.

That's my opinion. It's probably biased, since games are always more fun when you're new to them. But Prophecies did have some qualities that the others were lacking in.

The 'skill > time played' statement that people so often bring up was ditched once the reality of a rapidly growing PvE population hit ANet. People came to Guild Wars from all over because it had no subscription fees, which set it apart from other MMORPGs. Some came because of the balanced PvP gameplay and skill > time motto, but the vast majority couldn't have cared less about those things. The PvE was all that they were after. These people gave ANet money; ANet had to cater for them. ANet needed to give players more stuff to do, but they couldn't cause any imbalance. The solution was, partly, optional grind. In addition, they made wealth harder to acquire, and created more money sinks (having to buy every skill, for example).

Guild Wars still has very little grind, the most part of which is optional. Having that good looking armor or weapon doesn't give you any advantage, unlike in other games. Guild Wars is balanced entirely around skills, not gear.

As long as GW2 doesn't have subscription fees, we can be fairly sure that it won't have too much grind. What's the point in forcing players to stay in the game and do boring stuff when they're not paying for it?

Default Name · Sep 04, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

I don't use PVE skills at all, not even in the most difficult dungeon. so the grind doesn't really affect me. But then I have to agree with those saying grind is badly implemented in the form of PVE skills and environmental benefits.

Grind for an elite armor or item is fine as these do not offer any advantages, only a prettier version. But with skills, there is an advantage. Though not against other people but in the end, if two were going for that 7/8 party, one with maxed PVE skill.... not to mention the environmental benefits provided by titles.

I for one would rather see PVE skills somewhat tied to primary class attributes than be totally free from them. So even with mediocre title rank the amount of points invested into your attributes can still make them rather useful.

Effendi Westland · Sep 04, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Hurrah for prophecies, when we were all noobs and didn't mind to team with other noobs.

Hurrah for prophecies, where we didn't mind to spend a lot of time getting through the game (at least on the first char).

Hurrah for prophecies, when we didn't have to have all the end-game gear the minute we left pre.

Big_Iron · Sep 04, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

/cheers

Prophecies is still my all time fave.

Malice Black · Sep 04, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Hurray!

Noob loving!

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Hurray!

Noob loving!

Yays! Good ole days of Frenzying non-stop thinking it's worth it! oh snapzs i em takiin damge, thakn gawd for heal sig yea!

Good times.

IslandHermet · Sep 04, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

/cheer /cheer /cheer

Very good Quote My friend i 100% agree that quote relates to the 1st campaign only and none others cause hero/hench is not team work its AFK Battles and by AFK i mean c space and watch TV or a Movie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I just finished off the last mission in GW:EN. I'm still working my way thought dungeons, with only about a third done there. However, I was a bit disappointed after finishing the story mode to see that there were still a number of armorers who wouldn't give me the time of day.

Quote:
The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won’t need to spend hundreds of hours levelling up your character to compete.

I remember back in the days of Prophecies when that was actually true. So, rather than go on a rant questioning why I should continue to grind to get the NPCs to like me after finishing off the main story, I'd instead like to just give a short bit of praise to the one that got it right. Prophecies boldly went out with a new paradigm of skill over time spent in MMOs against a field of competitors that made grinding the standard. So, I raise a glass to the first in the Guild Wars line. Hopefully someone will pick up this idea and run with it again in the future.

Malice Black · Sep 04, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yays! Good ole days of Frenzying non-stop thinking it's worth it! oh snapzs i em takiin damge, thakn gawd for heal sig yea!

Good times.

Lol I still do that sometimes, just to get the noob feeling again.

Zakarr · Sep 04, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Like someone already said...

Online games at the best when everything is new for everyone. It has little to with new campaigns if the game itself is same.

CNoxx · Sep 04, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Come on, what's so great with prophecies except the nostalgic value it certainly has for many people?

The thought of fighting through an endless horde of devourers with level 7 and an ascalon axe of fortitude 6-16 req 3 - while my screen shows exactly two colors: brown and a reddish hue of brown - for days and days makes me want to get down on my knees and praise the gods of anet for factions and yes, even nightfall. Take the rather lame cut scenes and the corny dialogue ("I used to play here as a child...") and I'm even more grateful. Ok, the Tutorial is sweet, but rather limited.

Of course, it's a discussion of principles here, but how long can you stay true to your principles without getting boring? And to skill over time spent: Wouldn't it take even more skill to beat the game (nf, gw:en) without farming for possibly unbalanced PvE only skills?

Bio-Flame · Sep 04, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

I think prophecies has something that the other Chapthers don't have:

In prophecies, you want to do quests/explore because you want to:

1- Reach lvl 20
2- Get your skills
3- Get the Elite Skills

Now, in the other chapters you get leveled very very fast, sometimes you leave the "noob" areas at lvl 20 already and with plenty of what will become your "main" skills....

So, what I mean is that Prophecies has a better character development curve while the other chapters pretty much burn everything right at the begining.
What happens is that you don't actually notice that during the first time you play that Chapter but as you try to repeat it that feeling of "I've got nothing left to do here" comes sooner and sooner...
imo.

TreeDude · Sep 04, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Factions better than Nightfall? Factions is great if you need to get a lvl20 character quickly. I liked Nightfall more than Factions though.

Nothing compares to the first time through Prophecies though. Though the game was very different then. We didn't have half the things we have now. No traders, just storage and a merchant. Prices of everything were very high. Getting into a PUG for any quest was easy. My first time though I only used henchies a few times and it was never a full group of them. Those were the days. I am hoping GW2 brings some of that back.

I don't think needing to work a little to have better looking armor is a grind through. If you don't have to do it to get max stat armor then it is not a grind. To me grinding means you have to do it in order to play the game normally. RF Online is a good example of having to grind to lvl30 in order to compete in PvP. You can't get around it. If you don't NEED it then I think Anet can make you work for it. No one complained about FoW armor....

kobey · Sep 04, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Hurrah for prophecies, when we were all noobs and didn't mind to team with other noobs.

Hurrah for prophecies, where we didn't mind to spend a lot of time getting through the game (at least on the first char).

Hurrah for prophecies, when we didn't have to have all the end-game gear the minute we left pre.

Yeah,

The only campaign which I ever pug throughout the whole storyline.

Prophecies is nice

Faction has some great looking weapons

Nightfall ... Put an end to my pug experiences (Introduction of Heros)

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Lol I still do that sometimes, just to get the noob feeling again.

Can't beat nostalgia. I brought it in my bar for a bit too, until I died <1 sec against 3 chilling whisps.

Epinephrine · Sep 04, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Prophecies was great. I'm having trouble staying even remotely interested in GW:EN - the plot's fine, but we start a quest and suddenly it's time to hunt the various monsters inthe area, and talk to a norn, and then more hunting, and talk to a norn, and hunt some more, and norn time...

Sure, you don't need to do it that way, but everyone wants to advance these titles, to unlock stuff and boost PvE skills and all. I'm just not enjoying it much.

Prophecies had it right. Sure, there have been countless improvements, and I don't miss the old attribute refund points, nor the incredibly crowded storage (wihth no room for materials!) and I really enjoy Alliance Battles (yes, though they're a bit silly, they're fun), but most of that is just extra. Prophecies felt more free. Yeah, there was Drok's running etc., but you could wander. I remember the joy of just exploring, trying to fight your way to the next area - tackling Lornar's to Droknar at level 19, fighting through with 6 players.

Yeah, it was irritating to have to remember what NPC in what area had a skill, but it was also enjoyable to work to get them, and it didn't feel like grind so much, since you could pretty much get to any outpost quickly enough.

Three cheers for the original GW, and for the goals they set themselves.

I'm all for PvE skills, in that it is a smart way to allow for effects that ae imbalanced in PvP, but the title-linked garbage is annoying.

Burn Butt · Sep 04, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Prophecies was awesome!
Factions was awesome!
Nightfall was awesome!
EOTN is awesome!

Those of you that have given up on human groups in favor of Heroes/Henchies should either (a) decide that you just enjoy the game more with Heroes/Henchies, (b) Join a decent guild with good players, or (c) develop some patience while searching for PUGs.
I remember in the days of just prophecies when you would wait around for an hour or so to get a good group for a mission. I'm sure that instant gratification has just taken over for a few of you.

I can say this, I've gotten several people hooked on Guild Wars, but only by starting them in Prophecies. Whenever they started in Factions or Nightfall the hook didn't sink in deep enough. The reason? Too quick and rushed to level. I think the developers have figured this out, hench GW2.

But man, if you guys spent half as much time exploring, killing, questing, having fun in the game as you do complaining, you'de have armour for all 4 titles by now. Everyone just seems to have their idea of just how the game should be played and if ANet gives you something you're not expecting, you want it to be "fixed". Perhaps your enjoyment of prophecies comes, not from the idea that the game was better, but the fact that you didn't have all kinds of set "expectations" for how it was going to play out. Maybe you can get some of the wonder-eyed kid in you back that can look at the game as what it is, and not the cranky old man who demands what you think it should be.

Taki · Sep 04, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

...The 'skill > time played' statement that people so often bring up was ditched once the reality of a rapidly growing PvE population hit ANet. People came to Guild Wars from all over because it had no subscription fees, which set it apart from other MMORPGs. Some came because of the balanced PvP gameplay and skill > time motto, but the vast majority couldn't have cared less about those things. The PvE was all that they were after. These people gave ANet money; ANet had to cater for them. ANet needed to give players more stuff to do, but they couldn't cause any imbalance. The solution was, partly, optional grind. In addition, they made wealth harder to acquire, and created more money sinks (having to buy every skill, for example).

Guild Wars still has very little grind, the most part of which is optional. Having that good looking armor or weapon doesn't give you any advantage, unlike in other games. Guild Wars is balanced entirely around skills, not gear.

Symeon killed it. This needs to be put in a banner or sig... or something.

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 04, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Well, I just finished off the last mission in GW:EN. I'm still working my way thought dungeons, with only about a third done there. However, I was a bit disappointed after finishing the story mode to see that there were still a number of armorers who wouldn't give me the time of day.

I remember back in the days of Prophecies when that was actually true. So, rather than go on a rant questioning why I should continue to grind to get the NPCs to like me after finishing off the main story, I'd instead like to just give a short bit of praise to the one that got it right. Prophecies boldly went out with a new paradigm of skill over time spent in MMOs against a field of competitors that made grinding the standard. So, I raise a glass to the first in the Guild Wars line. Hopefully someone will pick up this idea and run with it again in the future.

Since when did not being able to talk/buy armor in GW:EN affect your ability to compete? I'm lost

Anyways I remember back in the very early days of Proph and even months down the road you still had to grind balth faction at a very slow rate in order to be competitive....

Burn Butt · Sep 04, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Since when did not being able to talk/buy armor in GW:EN affect your ability to compete? I'm lost

Anyways I remember back in the very early days of Proph and even months down the road you still had to grind balth faction at a very slow rate in order to be competitive....

Right! There is a MASSIVE amount of grinding to get FoW armour, or 15k armour in Prophecies. Excellent point. I remember my first character had to run around outside of Droks just killing for no reason in order to save up enough for just the 1.5k armour. I'm personally LOVING eotn. I hope it's an indication of what's coming in GW2.

boxterduke · Sep 04, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Prophecies is great, its the one that made us stick it with GW until now and buy the chapters and expansion